As the CG leader, I went first. The over-humility seems fake, like false humility. A pastor or elder does not automatically have spiritual authority due to his position in a church. I have no comment on the Cabo thing; but I will say, the church was opened to anyone and anyone during the snowstorm, event the kids playhouse for children to play. Im sorry Todd but Im praying for you and your family through this rough times. He can be only the center ofRead more . Todd Wagner, the embattled pastor of Watermark Church, a Dallas multisite megachurch with a pre-pandemic congregation of 20,000 people, has resigned his position as senior pastor and elder. You guys can rip apart our church and Todd all you want, but I know him, and you wont find a man with more of a heart of gold than him. that the elder board was ready to go in Todds leadership direction. If I had to guess the Sr Pastor Todd agreed to leave if the concerned pastor Steve agreed to resign. He had no recollection of ever having seen or met you before because he was so self absorbed. to verify your name calling., Which of the victims of Give a gift of $30 or more to The Roys Report this month, and you will receive Escaping the Maze of Spiritual Abuse by Dr. Lisa Oakley and Justin Humphreys. to the homeless person in Dallas, it might be a hot meal and a warm bed, a job, eventually a home of some kind (a room to call their own, a studio, an apartment,). Or, in this case, you live on as Elder Emeritus! It definitely wasnt the first thing that we did (nor was sharing our life maps, as *Susan* said was her experience). You can see it on their instagram! Theres a lot of talk and a lot of Christianese language, but its still impossible to say exactly what happened or exactly what is and was going on. Before I get into the first story, I want to lay some groundwork to help my readers understand how the structure of community groups at Watermark Church works. Watermark exists to be and make more fully devoted followers of Christ, looking to God's Word as our only authority, conscience and guide. ingratiating and wheedling in a way I asked Susan if she wouldnt mind answering a few questions for this post, which she was happy to do. Still havent found a church I like since. This crook has got to go. yes, that is a valid question. He has people who fund his life so no donations are used for that purpose and so he can fully focus on running the mission.. do you have knowledges that Todd is spending money frivolously? That is only for the married folk. Todd was put on sabbatical to reflect about his proud attitude. This podcast is a production of Watermark Community Church in Dallas, Texas, USA. I can attest, when they claim no member of WM will ever go homeless, is a complete and total lie. Im confident Todd wagner has done more to help people than all commenters combined. True humility is replaced with a very shallow and false one and so they humble brag about how big a crowd they can draw. Log In. Wagner founded Watermark in 1999 with the expressed purpose of ministering to "the unchurched, dechurched, dead-churched and unmoved." The church grew rapidly and now has campuses in Dallas, Frisco, and Plano. Watermark Community Church abuse. Outsourced: How Watermark Community Church Fails in Caring for Its Members, The Spin Cycle Watermark Community Church Members Unlikely to Ever Know the Truth Behind Resignations, Before You Sign: What You Need to Know About Membership Covenants, Making the Cut What Does It REALLY Take to Become a Member at Watermark Community Church, Dallas Megachurch Pastor Todd Wagner Resigns, Cites Pride as the Reason, https://www.watermark.org/about/governance, OUR COMMUNITY SERIES: Being Lonely in a Group of People | To Love, Honor and Vacuum, Leaders trying to drain members in order to live exorbitant lives. Scripture also says live your neighbor as yourself.folks many of you here have already missed that mark. The Dallas ISD board of trustees approved the sale in late August; records show Watermark paid $211,000 for nine acres of building and bare land off Second Avenue a steal, no matter the. Once you see it, you cant unsee it. If you arent a covenant member at Watermark Church, you cant join a community group, and that is where all the getting involved starts. He could have sold the house when it was gifted to him, bought a home more in line with a humble servant leader, and donated the additional proceeds to the church. The author writes in an article titled but unfortunately christian powerbrokers have made christianity about things other than Jesus Christ. Its where two or more are gathered not where two or more thousands are gathered. He is a restorer and a life giver, even as we ALL come to him seeking forgiveness. Having said that,Read more . Our mission is to Love God, Love People, and Serve the World. Watermark's Church Contract The house was gifted to him by an extremely successful member of the church. I was wrong and truly apologize. Could just be their abilities to appear a certain way up in front of a crowd. Im not saying that the Watermark Todd Wagner lives in a shack, by any means. No wonder the under 30 group are saying goodbye to church. I received some emails from former Watermark Church members who wanted to tell their stories, but were hesitant to share too much online, for fear of repercussions, or as I refer to it, fair game. Its all a show for people to be conned into thinking your being godly. I verified it. Christian Church. (although my personal view is a modest lifestyle is best for all, and all things considered,). If you call Christ a savior then learn to make Him The gift tax is only levied at the end of someones life when they exceed the gift tax exclusion in their lifetime (which is currently set at $11.7 million per individual). its all relative the woman in the mumbai slum may see the person in Dallas who rents a room as having luxuries, who sees the person living in their own apartment as having luxuries. On the cult thing: LIsten to this longer presentation from a high school ministry event. Wow. however, since evangelical leaders have redefined gossip to mean dont rock the boat to protect their power, careers, and revenue, can you explain what you mean by gossip? The judge in the case ruled for church arbitration, which for Scientologists and former Scientologists means something completely different than the average person. . A former member of Shekinah Church, who lost a lawsuit against Shinn in which she alleged he swindled her out of $4 million, has issued a dire warning for those who have been lured into the. Evangelical Church. There is another Todd Wagner in Dallas he is an entrapenuer Its not Wagner the pastor. Wowza, what does Whoopie have to do with this? Another $ maker? No its not. Not to gotcha, but I just want to set the record straight that the gift tax doesnt make it unrealistic that Todds family was gifted that house. He finally quit when he decided to switch jobs and was reprimanded for not getting the groups permission. Its almost as if Mr. Wagner is concerned that more detailed information will come out. I have shepherded groups at Re|EngageI do not trust the leadership at WM Re|Engage. Watermark was founded in November 7, 1999 with an outward-focused ministry that sought to minister to "the unchurched, dechurched, dead-churched and unmoved." [1] Watermark averages about 9,000 weekly attendants. Per Todd Wagner I was not the right person or the right fit or whatever he thought. He is waiting on us and saying Go but lost ones are here judging because of some issue no matter how big it is (Lord has it) eSignature; Ill meet you. Great! The only fees were for the materials we used. While God does allow humans to have free will, His greatest gift to every human is salvation and eternal life, through believing that He sent His son as a sacrifice for our sins. -. They gossip. I dont doubt some unconcionable things happened. Its gotten popular which makes me suspect. The Christian Post's Leonardo Blair wrote an eyeopening post titled Dallas megachurch pastor who confessed to sin of pride resigns. -, Watermark Community Church has believers SIGN . Amy Smith of the blog Watchkeep has documented her experience there, and it bears much of the hallmarks of a cult. They were not giving Him a standing ovation. Todd had 6 children living at home at the time he was gifted the home. Im confused about your statement that the crowd Jesus drew wanted to see him tortured to death in the most cruel way possible. I agree, it is all relative, which was kind of my point. Sure Todd is challenged this season, but remember Lord is still in control. Todd Wagner is a guy that would jump in a foxhole with me with the bullets are flying, and I for him. Aside from the fact that it was gifted to him (alarming at the very least) it shows poor stewardship and lack of humility on Wagners part. the equity in a $million+ home can be invested to provide hot meals, warm beds, jobs, training, and more for years. The man and his wife were Watermark members. The elder team is interdependent of each other, creating a system in which it is impossible or highly difficult to discipline or remove any one elder. Regardless we know Romans 8:28 maybe its a season of 2 Tim 3:16-17. Thanks for giving up the last word. As soon as I saw the pastor lived in a 15 million dollar house, that was it for me. I was so disappointed reading all the comments, especially when considering the targeted audience for this site. Many won't perform gay marriage. Maybe because I have not had a negative experience with elder rule I do not see it as a problem. Hello, Scottie. Every argument you put forth seems to be based on your subjective opinion based on your speculation, assumption, and judgement.. Watermark encourages people to confess their sins to one another and to admonish faithfully but thats because thats what the Bible tells us to do as believers.. Does anyone know if the Re:Engage marriage program that Watermark started is worthwhile? The Christian Post's Leonardo Blair wrote an eyeopening post titled Dallas megachurch pastor who confessed to sin of pride resigns. Spiritual authority has nothing to do with title, education, or rhetorical ability (2 Cor 10-13). That is one huge cult. Small group of meeting once a week. God has allowed the clarity and conviction that I need to not leave a snarky comment, to dry up.. Also I probably would be off my depression meds. They did create it. I canRead more , I can tell you that I know Todd Wagner personally over 20 years ago. One of His Disciples who signed a church membership contract?, Five Reasons to Say No to a Church Covenant 4774 sq ft house. (note spelling a/e) I have met small groups all over the Dallas area of cast aside individuals who bonded over the abuse they experienced while attending this organization. Its extremely worrisome that they feel they have to hide and be afraid of what Watermark Church may say or do in response to them telling the truth about their abuse. One question is However, if you have any experience with these covenants or have heard stories of people who have dealt with a church where they signed one of these and there was a point of contention or disagreement, you know that these are LEGALLY binding agreements and can be used against you (re: current The Village Church lawsuit& the Karen Hinkley story.). IfRead more , Adding to people in good standing who have zero knowledge of any discipline issues also fear leaving due to verifiable stories where watermark members have harassed and stalked people for leaving in cases where the person leaving has come to realize the place at its core is Not what is represented on its surface and middle layers. Below are screenshots of their membership covenant. You are right, being up front about it is important. Its all based on financial packages and NDAs now. Its clear as mud. There is clearly some issues, but isnt Lord bug enough to handle it, even at the worst of Todd missed the boat? The preacher they were to install couldnt preach well. In my next post Ill share another story from another former-Watermark member. yes, things do not add up. . In principle it was excellent. 5,280 were here. Also, please note, you are free to leave Watermark Church at any time. Really miss your sermons and spirit led preaching. No wonder the process of disciplining and removing an elder within this structure is so dysfunctional theres no independent accountability. (How many of you have actually prayed for Todd)? 1 Thessalonians 5:21 Todd especially. Photo taken March 7, 2014. John Doe's attorney says his client is now considering a civil lawsuit against the church for slander. The Roys Report seeks to foster thoughtful and respectful dialogue. A man and a woman who sued Watermark Community Church over threats to disclose an alleged affair have dropped the suit, both sides said Tuesday. He did end the video by defining what HE thought the three marks of a cult were: Im going to address #3, because I did my own Google search of the Dallas County Central Appraisal District and discovered that Todd Wagner lives in a $1.5 million dollar home in a very prestigious area of Dallas. God has allowed the clarity and conviction that we need, that I need, to serve well in this role to dry up, Wagner said. I think one can probably make a case for it using Scripture, but I think Elder-Rule ignores the Scriptural precedence of independent accountability: In terms of two doctrinal statements, what this does is set up an inner ring of people who more closely align with the beliefs of the church (and by church, I mean elders). trying to figure out what happened in an effort to understand if the leadership is healthy or unhealthy. They have brought a civil lawsuit against the Church of Scientology for stalking and intimidation that occurred after they reported their assaults to the police. Hes definitely not perfect, but he is a good and Godly man who preached the gospel boldly and consistently. Wagner said he is excited about what God is going to do at the church in its next season and urged the congregation to obey their leaders. Former Pastor Accused of Rape Resigns from Churchome After TRR Investigation; Church Official Makes False Claims, Arkansas Youth Pastor Pleads Guilty to 13 Counts of Sexual Assault, EXCLUSIVE: John MacArthur Shamed, Excommunicated Mother for Refusing to Take Back Child Abuser, Days-long Revival Sweeping Asbury University in Kentucky, EXCLUSIVE: John MacArthur Covered Up Pastors Sexual Abuse, Witnesses Say, EXCLUSIVE: John MacArthurs Church Supported Convicted Child Abuser & Pedophile, Records Show, Dante Bowe Posts, Then Removes, Apology for Behavior Causing Split with Maverick City Music, Matt Chandler Steps Aside After Admitting Inappropriate Online Relationship, John MacArthur Pulls Out of Ligonier Conference, Pastor Resigns From Houston Megachurch After Admitting Affair, Televangelist Creflo Dollar Renounces Past Teachings on Tithing, But Questions Persist. We are talking about a CHURCH here, not the mafia. Thats not true. Where are you getting this information? +++++++++++++++. I think I have a pdf copy of a ten year old one. In His end the crowd that He drew wanted to see Him tortured to death in the most cruel way possible. a smarmy, unctuous reply. I was a messed up kid at that time and Todd was the worst counselor ever. As I read Scripture I recognized it didn't have to be my opinion vs. Tony's anymore. Smarmy Thesaurus Theyre all using so much jargon that its hard to figure out what any of it actually means. This gives freedom to members who may still be working through some of their beliefs while also holding the elders to a higher standard. In the video, an emotional Leventhal said that he had resigned on March 26 because of a loss of trust in Todds ability to lead in the role of pastoral elder/senior pastor, which was the direction the elders were wanting to move to.. i watched the video dont know how i got as far as i did i had to turn it off. Church leaders concealed sexual abuse of young children, lawsuits allege. She has never seriously considered getting involved with the church beyond that, but has expressed to me that it is quite difficult to actually get connected at Watermark Church because everything is centered around MEMBERSHIP and COMMUNITY GROUPS and you cant have one without the other. But, we ALL should be. These churches are a whore of Babylon and if not outright wolves, these guys are at the very least scammers. I dont know if I am over-reacting when Todd made a off the cuff remark about taking his wife some where last week where she could be warm. It was like someone flipped a switch, and I fell in love with Jesus. Over the years, Wagner has been dogged by allegations of spiritual abuse published on a blog called No Eden Elsewhere. * For What? utterly un-credible. Keep in touch with Julie and get updates in your inbox! The lessons were unifying and not surfacy. If I was a member of this church my motivation for remaining or leaving would be almost entirely based upon trying to figure out what happened in an effort to understand if the leadership is healthy or unhealthy. He didnt even buy the house, it was gifted by a member years ago. There are also a lot of factors that go into measuring ones wealth, not just the dollar value of ones house; and there are a lot of things that go into measuring ones character, other than how much money one has or the kind of house one lives in. Eight-time Top 100 Places to Work winner Watermark Community Church finds that patience is a virtue Church kept the faith and finds itself on top of the list after 7 consecutive . In the online video, Leventhal described the process of discernment with Wagner as heart-breaking, exhausting, and expensive for Leventhal, his wife, the elder team, and the campus pastor team. You live by Elder-Rule, you die by Elder-Rule. However, an expert on church property law says the churches . Once your account is created, you'll be logged-in to this account. Give a gift of $30 or more to The Roys Report this month, and you will receive a copy of Escaping the Maze of Spiritual Abuse by Dr. Lisa Oakley and Justin Humphreys. What does all white and all males have to do absolutely anything with regard to this situation? Izael who are you to judge someone elses experience? Watermark Comunity Church., I would say on average I receive a few emails a month from people who have been hurt by Watermark Community Church. I assured those who wanted to speak out with their stories that I would not identify them or use any details in my post that could be used to identify them. Susan felt it was ironic that I had made a comparison between Scientology and Watermark Church, because she said those same comparisons helped her realize that she was not in a healthy church. Before coming to Watermark, I never knew the Bible could be applied to my life. And Elder Kyle Thompson tearfully described how God had used Wagner to disciple and grow and to model for me what faithfulness looks like more than anybody else, period., Elder Mickey Friedrich then urged the church not to try and judge whose version of events is right or wrong. To the unsuspecting eye, everything contained in this document may seem legitimate or customary as far as church membership goes. Better to have one doctrinal statement that unites both members and elders in my opinion. Watermark Church Lawsuit. When I was 17, I started attending church regularly with my boyfriend (now husband) in high school, and we would go to Sunday School. to the woman in mumbai who lives with her family in a sheet metal lean-to in a slum and keeps it spic and span, tidy, and as homey as possible (a hero in my mind), lavish would be a walls and a roof of some kind. Again from the Watermark Church document: 1.Voluntary termination of Membership is available to any Member in good standing upon written request of that Member. Additionally, unless you have seen all of the financial reports from the last 22 yrs, you have no idea how Wagner was compensated. I wonder what is considered a lavish lifestyle. People are insecure, confused, listen to gossip,Read more . have caused them to *go astray,*. Jackson Elliott contributed to this report. I wonder what is considered a lavish lifestyle. Also resigned is David Leventhal, an elder and teaching pastor at Watermark, who said he had lost trust in Wagners leadership. He could have thanked his friend for his generosity, and politely declined the gift, suggesting he would love for the proceeds from the resale of the house be donated to a local homeless charity instead. It is Lord that gives and takes it away. Yes WM hides abusers and minimizes victims. 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